ARCHIVE #1 Special Education Folder: Creating a Perfect System May 5, 1995 to October 15, 1995 FILE NAME: spedcps1.txt This is a large file, please open in your word processor program. Subj: A Perfect System Date: 95-05-10 09:23:39 EST From: USAisNo1 Please post all things you feel are needed to make the special education system the best for our children. I will send this information to congress in July. It's time for the parents to have a say in the system since they are the true experts. Thanks StephanieSubj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-10 17:35:18 EST From: NKillebrew Mandatory training of all teachers and school administrators on learning differences. Interim special ed case workers once an assessment process begins. We shouldn't have to wade thru school politics for nine months while a child continues to fail because he doesn't have the help he/she needs. Emphasis on study skills from the early elementary years on. More emphasis on real-world curriculum, ethics, and state-of-the-art trends in technology. Classroom settings which teach to all styles of learning, not just auditory.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-11 08:48:34 EST From: Mytdks Multisensory teaching approaches should not just benefit our special ed. kids, but all other students as well. I couldn't agree more than what the previous message response. How are you going to try to implement these changes? How are you going to address this? Most importantly, to whom? Some of these issues of concerns we have, have been around for a long time. The only way I've known to see it change, is thru an IEP.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-11 11:30:14 EST From: USAisNo1 I need as many ideas as possible and will take them to the appropriate people. I need solutions to problems so they can see we have thought this out and know what is needed. The parents need to get involved with the changes that are necessary. I would like to see a parent task force in each state that evaluates the schools and makes recomendations to the state special ed director about changes needed in each school district. Some systems are really doing a great job in the area of special education but there are a lot of schools that are doing just enough to comply and some that don't comply at all. Parents should not have to enter a war with the schools to get an appropriate education for their child. These schools need to be educated on how to handle special education and I feel the parents are the ones to do that. Please leave your name and state or e-mail so I can put it on the list I plan to send along with a letter. I plan to send this to one person in congress from each state.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-11 22:37:53 EST From: NKillebrew It's me again...I'm from Minnesota and would love to be on a task force to evaluate the school system here. I'm part of a parent advocacy group and know of several other very interested parents. We are all veterans of special ed wars. Put me on any distribution lists, please. Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-15 02:04:37 EST From: Socadream Ditto for me, I would jump at the chance to be on a task force to evaluate Spec ed. I am currently appointed to our local Community Advisory Committee, Spec Ed. (Federaly mandated). This is what our group is supposed to do, however the District Spec Ed Director tries to crush everything we do. Especially if we critisize the district way of doing things. We were supposed to put out a newsletter, we did (it was on IEP's)--well they were very upset and now we have to clear all future newsletters with district (30 days). The director and one teacher rep. got together one day (without telling us or our chairperson) and re-wrote our bylaws (needless to say, they were not parent-friendly). We went so far as to call the state CAC rep. It seems she was our director's old buddy. (an ex-principal from our school district). She said we should try to work it out with the district--lots of help. The whole committee is about ready to walk. I think you have the right idea--your panel needs to be TOTALLY detached from schools--no ties. Good luck, let us know the status.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-15 21:06:15 EST From: NKillebrew Ditto on the total detachment from the schools...and no government funding of any sort. We call our parent group the INDEPENDENT Parent Advisory Group for this very reason.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-15 22:41:29 EST From: Alke We as Americans see ourself as a people who can do it all when we are united. This is what has to happen if America is ever going to get back to the great nation that we all want it to be. It has been through education that we are able to leap to the moon and beyond and it is with education that we will conquer this problem called special education. It is not a problem to me, but to too many educators and politicians, special education is just a waste of time and money. I want special education to be the model for all to see, but we can not get there because we have too many people trying to eliminate us and the good we can and have done for the children of our country. I would be a fool if I did not mention money, because money is what special education needs badly. I come from a state that is still back in the plantation days and thinks that children do not have the right to have an appropriate education. With that mentality, it is no wonder we suffer from humiliation and many other problems, the least is an inadquate educational system and the financing of it. The financing of special education is a majority concern that I have for the whole country, because my state is not the only one that struggles to make ends meet, and the sad thing about this whole subject, is that foreign countries and big business get all of the breaks. Why is it these entities get the tax breaks and the benefits, that our own born and raised in America children do get? Now how do you figure that out? It is a sad day that in a country that has so much and spends so little on THE most important asset it has (children) it is again no wonder we are losing our teenagers through dropouts. They see how much we care about them and see where our hearts are. As long as we have greed, it will be hard for this nation to come to the realization that it is about to lose its most precious asset. The perfect system to me is let me teach what I know and how I know to teach it. Don't render me helpless with useless paperwork and requirements. Support my decisions and my intelligence. Give me the tools to manage my classroom effectively and efficiently. After that STAND BACK AND LET ME HAVE FUN AND MY KIDS. AFTER ALL THEY ARE STILL KIDS AND LIKE THEM I AM TOO. alke Subj: Re:A Perfect System--Florida?? Date: 95-05-15 23:10:20 EST From: KMBrill This is a first! Is it possible that there is SOMETHING we are doing right in South Florida?! The parent movement is evolving here--better late than never...Palm Beach County is about to errupt. Our parents have involved themselves at all levels. Our district has an "ESE Task Force" (now called an "ESE Advisory Group"). This task force is comprised of parents and professionals. More often than not the meetings are contrived and we are subjected to district rhetoric. However, the task force does provide a forum to address issues and concerns. To date, the task force has not been the vehicle we hoped to help bring about systemic change. Nevertheless, it is an important tool for us. Separate from the task force, we have the ESE Coalition. The Coalition is run by parents (as opposed to the professionals who control the task force) and many individuals are dually involved. The Coalition is totally autonomous. An important part of our membership is other organizations, e.g., Gold Coast Down Syndrome Organization, Autism Society, etc. We have spent a great amount of time getting the Coalition's name out in the streets. Parents have spoken at school board meetings. We have written to the editorial columns of local papers. We have solicited support from the media. We have shared our stories with local non-profits. You never know where we will pop up! When issues have come up in Congress, we have consistently stormed Washington with letters and faxes. Locally, we keep our finger on the pulse of Tallahassee. We will be a part of the selection committee for our new district ESE Coordinator and now, with the task of finding a new Superintendent, we will be certain to gain representation on that selection committee. What does all of this mean? It means that parents must not be afraid to speak their minds. We must always remember that we--parents--are the ones with the vested interest. If we allow the schools to fail our children, then we are failing our children. If the schools are not doing their jobs, it is our job to set things right. With our school district, we agree to disagree. It is also important to maintain good relations with your school board. Cultivate relationships on that level. Share information with your school board. Never assume the school board knows what you know (remember how little YOU knew before your child was born?). Good luck and if we can help, let me know via e-mail.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-21 20:51:28 EST From: PMS Ent I am an involved parent with a child who has multiple learning disabilities. The educators need to be educated. I want to be apart of the process in making the changes we need to. Please contact me. sparent@ola.comSubj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-22 08:58:24 EST From: NKillebrew Interesting..."Educate our Educators" is a slogan I would like to see our advocacy group adopt...we're still defining who we are...but I believe that many teachers and administrators react defensively, and rudely, because they are not informed (yes, there are some who are informed and choose to not accomodate). The teachers who care and do accomodate and are informed are our greatest asset. Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-22 21:30:12 EST From: PMS Ent I realize there are good teachers out there who do try to listen and try new ways of helping a LD child as we have had the good forturne to meet them. The problem they run into is the other teachers who don't want to understand. These educators need to learn emphathy. They need to learn that these children take patience and they (the teacher) needs to learn new skills in teaching rather than blaming the child, the parent. It is time for the educators to be educated in building the positive in a child rather than the negative. The LD child knows he isn't like his classmates. Why can't these educators reconize the behavior is the result of knowing you can't do what some one else can and you don't know why?Subj: Re: A Perfect System Date: 95-05-22 21:46:54 EST From: PMS Ent IF there is anyone out there from California I would like to hear from you. The advocacy groups here are specilized. I like the idea of starting a group in my community. I do have some ideas, and I am trying to put it together. We can't eliminate the schools as they are part of our educating the communities in order to obtain the support we need from everyone for our children. I received a call from my district today. We are forever in battle, however, I stood my ground and they agreed to my terms. We are all taxpayers and it is our tax dollars that pay that pay the salaries of these public officials. As parents and taxpayers we need to make sure we are getting our monies worth! There are ways to we can create a perfect system . If any one is interested in my ideas let me know. Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-23 08:58:14 EST From: USAisNo1 I love the slogan "Educate Our Educators" but a lot of teachers will see it a s a slap in the face. Thanks for all the ideas and keep them coming. Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-24 07:45:48 EST From: NKillebrew I think that's part of the problem...seeing themselves as omnipotent. Humility is a virtue that's worth attaining, and sharing with our children through exemplary behavior. No one knows everything, especially when it comes to special ed. I don't see the educators who are trained in special ed as problematic, as much as the mainstream teachers and administrators who like to think they know it all and don't need us telling them what they don't know. If someone personalizes our "slogan", I would suggest they look at the reasons why...their inward analysis can be no more of a struggle than the one parents and children experience when the spec ed door gets slammed in their face.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-24 09:11:45 EST From: USAisNo1 I see a problem with special educators, the regular teachers and especially administration. The problem with special educators I see is they have all ready decided what problems children will have before they ever evaluate them and they have a hard time educating the children who deviate from the mean of a particular disability. The regular teachers problem is usually purly a lack of knowledge. The administration wants to provide as little as they can to stay in compliance and I see them manipulating the children's placements to make a profit. The perfect system would consist of a team of parents and non-school professional to act as a watch dog over the programs in the schools. Subj: The perfect system Date: 95-05-24 20:07:32 EST From: MBern24 I work in an inner-city school district in New Jersey. Because the school can't afford out of district placements (or so they say) we have many children in special education who are being lost in the system. They are too uncontrollable for the school to handle. They end up wasting everyones time. I have students who really want to learn, but I can't teach them because the children who are acting out have to be taken care of first. The parents are too uneducated to realize their rights and their children's rights, and they are too tired to fight for them. I agree that school districts need to have committees of parents and teachers who will hold the districts accountable for what is going on. Also, I think all teachers should be educated in both regular education and special education. I have degrees in both, and learning about special education would only do good for those in regular education. In the college I graduated from, it was mandatory for a person who was majoring in special ed. to also major in elementary ed., but those who wanted to major in elementary ed. had no special ed. courses. With mainstreaming and inclusion becoming more and more popular, we really need to have the regular teachers educated in special education. We also need to base our curriculums around real life. Special education students really need to see that what they are learning applies to everyday life. Pennsylvania just started something called Outcome-Based Education. They supposedly got rid of "grades" and have all students (regular and special ed.) working towards objectives. This takes away a lot of the stigma of special education and lower level classes, but it is a lot of work. Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-25 09:01:38 EST From: PMS Ent There are teachers out there that don'tunderstand these children and they close their minds to suggestions. I keep hearing how all the other students can do so your child must also. I found it very difficult to function in the class room when I was trying to assist my son. The ADHD child is not the only child that needs structure! The stimulus in the OPEN class room was more than I could handle. There was so much confusion all around me and all I could think of was how could these young minds concentrate when there was so much going on? I also found that they allow the children to get play before school and excepted to become under control immediately for class. This is very difficult for the child who is hyper. The other problem I found with some teachers was that they become too restrictive. I firmly beleive that if a child is not causing a disruption to the class then why not reconize this and give him praise rather than causing the child additional stress by insisting he conform to what the teacher decides is necessary. The teachers say their major complaint is with a child who disruptes the class. What I have seen is the teacher manages to disrupt the class by making this child the focus of attention in a negative light. The teachers who fill they have been slapped are the ones who need to do some self evaluation and open up to suggestions. There are no easy answers when dealing with a child who does not have a clear diagnois and and everyone is searching for answers. Today the child can't add 2+ 2 as he did yesterday. That is the learning disabled child. He doesn't know why he can't so why insist he can do it. All children want to be accepted. It is the teacher's responsibilies to reconize each such is NOT BAD. There is a reason. The child isn't duing it intentually. Learn to not take it personally. Look at the positive in that child then work with others to adjust and be flexible.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-26 22:00:47 EST From: NKillebrew Ditto, PMS. I am constantly astonished by the negative reinforcement... some of it appears retaliatory or spiteful because they have to accomodate. Teachers must learn and practice positive problem resolution skills; they must demonstrate the behaviors they expect from our children. They need to "lighten up" and make learning fun. They must develop interpersonal skills. They need to give up the "status quo" and set new goals for themselves. If that means looking inward, again and again, to review their own style of teaching, what works and what doesn't work, so be it. Teaching should be a two-way street. Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-26 23:52:56 EST From: SusanS29 There are some things I really like about the Montessori system. They treat a new lesson like what it is -- a precious gift from one generation to the next. The Montessori teacher learns to present the lesson to the student in a low voice but revealing the excitement and wonder of what it to come -- MORE KNOWLEDGE!!! It's marveleous to see in action.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-29 13:03:52 EST From: LADISLIPER I am also looking for a perfect system for my son. I believe it is time to develop private schools under a voucher system. The state would pay for the school, and we could help develop special curriculum for our special children. Calif. is asking for it in the polls. I hope it passes next time because I believe that is the only way we are going to succeed. I personally have fought the present system for too many years and unfortunately my son has become the loser. If I can help please contact me at Ladisliper@AOLcom.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-30 23:27:37 EST From: PMS Ent The parents are under educated about their rights because the schools do not inform them. I agree that parent's give up. I did the first time around and my daughter was lost. This time I refuse to give up. The problem is why must it be a hassel? I can see why MBern24 feels these children are wasting everyone's time. When you have children with learning disabilities they become very uncontrolable and one teacher is not enough.On the other hand you have the child who is quite who also may need assistance but is left alone. The classes need to be smaller and there needs to be more than one teacher. Education takes more than a few hours of each day. Children need time and space rather than being forced into adult time schedule. I do not beleive any child is a waste of any ones time. I beleive that every child should be treated with compassion and patience. I question the capabilites of teachers who seem to always claim "all the other children sit quitely, but yours doesn"t". That teacher wants a robot. The states claim they can't afford special education so why would the voucher system be any guarantee. The state of California has a lottery which is for the purpose of funding education but everyone claims they don't see it. I am familiar with the Monessori Schools, however, they do not want children who have problems such as disrupting the class room. I would like teachers to quit looking for a diagnois and just reconize that when a child becomes disruptive it is because others around him can do what he can't seem to do and it is more than he is capable of handling. Children need to be children. They need to be treated with empathy, compassion, and when the child doesn't fit the "Critria" expected, then don't lable the child a "BAD" kid. Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-31 09:33:00 EST From: USAisNo1 No child is a waste of time. The only time wasted is the time we spend sitting in meetings to hear so called experts tell us what our children need. I am very curious about how much money is spent on meetings and how much is spent on actual time working with the child. We go to these meetings and explain our children's histories things they can do things they can't do things they are allergic to possible things to look out for and what happens the people in the meetings usually aren't the one s who are with the children the majority of time anyway and the ones who are with our children never hear any of this. What a waste of time and funds. The parents are put in a position of the school knows best we have degrees in htese areas and you are just merely the parent. The perfect system would listen to the parents and have faith that the majority of parents are the true expert about their children.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-31 18:59:25 EST From: SusanS29 "The only time wasted is the time we spend sitting in meetings to hear so called experts tell us what our children need." Not necessarily. It depends on the experts. Sometimes the information is useful, and sometimes it even leads to improved education. I've seen it first- hand. However, I absolutely agree that parents are experts in their own right about their own children, and it doesn't take an advanced degree. In the long run, only we parents will really take responsibility for our children. Teachers only have them for one year.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-05-31 20:33:49 EST From: NKillebrew I couldn't tell how much money is spent on meetings...but I can say it's small compared to the money school districts spend on litigation which is intended to keep our children from receiving the help they need. Minnesota school districts spent over 1 million last year on special ed litigation...Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-06-03 23:04:31 EST From: BaPenumbra I feel compelled to post here because I am a parent of a special needs child and a special educator. Believe me, I have had my trials as a parent with the school system. After teaching in a regular classroom for 11 years, I went back to college to get my masters in special ed to establish my credibility. The last three years I have taught special ed and found it to be the most rewarding experience of my life, but not without trials. As a teacher I have always tried to be the best I can be. There are professionals who do not understand special needs or the beautiful gifts these children have to give. Likewise, there are parents who have no trust and do not realize that there are those of us who really care. My experience has been that if everyone will reach out in love and understanding the walls will be broken down and our children will have the education they deserve and need. Open communication is the key and sometimes it is a difficult mountain to climb. I am hoping to become a motivational speaker working to bring parents and educators together. Please E-mail me if you have any suggestions, for I am open to learn and grow to be all that I can be. Saying it with love, BarbaraSubj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-06-04 11:10:10 EST From: USAisNo1 " Likewise, there are parents who have no trust and do not realize that there are those of us who really care." Most parents who do not trust began trusting that the schools really had the best interest of their children in mind and somewhere a long the line parents realize that not all are really there for the children. As a parent you get lied to, manipulated and you watch your child suffer through the neglect of the schools. It is hard for a parent to know which teacher is real and which one is not. Eventually you find out but should the disabled child be left to suffer until you realize this teacher really don't care or does care. As a parent we were given children with special needs we have had to learn about these needs and figure out how to meet them. It is hard to put blind trust in schools when you have been through numerous bad situations. It would make it a lot easier on parents to actually believe the schools and all the teachers really loved and cared about our childrens needs but believing it does not make it so. There are great teachers and usually the teacher is the least of the problems. The administration causes most of the problems and the teachers have to abide by the policies the administration sets. The perfect system would consist of expecting the disabled child to do what the child without disabilities does until the child shows he cannot then find an alternative method. The system needs to stop selling the disabled child short. Solutions for educating a disabled child should only come after a problem has been found.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-06-04 16:59:26 EST From: SusanS29 "As a parent you get lied to, manipulated and you watch your child suffer through the neglect of the schools." In fairness, this isn't all schools, all the time. We have had pretty good experiences for the most part.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-06-05 09:41:09 EST From: USAisNo1 "In fairness, this isn't all schools, all the time. We have had pretty good experiences for the most part." If one child is left to suffer that is one child too many! The schools need to be held accountable. Many schools are uneducated about meeting the needs of children with disabilities and assume every child who has a disability will have the same problems with education. Disabled children are like children without disabilities they all have different ways of learning.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-06-06 16:04:23 EST From: USAisNo1 I wonder what would happen if we quit focusing on what disabled children can't do and began focusing on what they can?Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-06-11 09:51:51 EST From: PMS Ent I totally agree. The purpose of EDUCATION is to educate. It is amazing how many educators fail to realize this. The whole system needs to be changed with the key word being FLEXIBILITY. If the child prefers to sit quitely at his desk rather than on the floor in front of the teacher why make an issue of it? Children need to have limits but let's be reasonable. Subj: What so special about specialed Date: 95-06-13 13:36:57 EST From: DearEsther Although I have been in special education for 32 years I feel that we have not gotten our job done. How many of our kids learn the skills they need to be successful and productive citizens. How many of our students have high self-esteem and know they have talents and gifts. My ADHD/LD son serious problems in regular ed, but I took him out of public schools rather than put him in a special ed. classroom where I felt he wouldn't be challenged to reach his full potential and he would be surrounded with other students who had similar social/behavior problems. He went to a private school where he was taught to appreciate himself and learn ways to control his inappropriate behaviors. he was taught to be responsible and respectful. He was acknowledged for his gifts and talents. He has just graduated from college and I know that would have never happened if I had placed him in special ed. in California. Perhaps things are different in other States, but are we really providing this children with the attitudes and skills they need to be successful and happy people?Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-13 16:28:46 EST From: USAisNo1 Special Education could work for a lot of children if the administrators and teachers would see the children as children and recognize the areas these children are good in. The idea that a child has a disability and therefore we can water down the curriculum and just do enough to meet state and federal guidelines is what is happening in a lot of schools. What is so special about special education? The only thing I see special are the children but then again does it take a disability be special? What is happening with education for the disabled is they are acting like our children are being given some sort of special classes therefore we should be grateful when in all actuallity it is like giving a baby a pacifier when he needs a bottle. Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-14 18:47:37 EST From: SusanS29 "Although I have been in special education for 32 years I feel that we have not gotten our job done." I think that very often you're right. Moreover, when we do get a good outcome I'm not sure special education can take the credit. It's been my experience that those kids are the ones who knew their parents were behind them all the way, who saw their child's special needs as just one small part of the overall picture. I think the parents should get the credit most of the time (although not the *blame* when that isn't enough.)Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-14 18:51:18 EST From: SusanS29 "Special Education could work for a lot of children if the administrators and teachers would see the children as children and recognize the areas these children are good in." I think the system fights us on that. Our special ed. system is dominated by the notion of "remediation," that we can "fix" whatever is "broken." Tremendous amounts of energy are spent on trying to make the child equally good at everything, and precious little on either compensation for weaknesses or for developing talents. Developing talents might be the most important part; every one needs to believe he or she is good at something. I was prevented from writing goals that would either head trouble off down the road (such as starting on cursive or multiplication facts ahead of the class's schedule) or that would maintain strengths. I found work-arounds (for instance, couching the multiplication facts as the measurement for "improved memory") but I had to be pretty creative.Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-16 20:06:33 EST From: Mytdks No one has worded this as well as you have. I am in litigation over this very thing. If John Doe can not memorize the mulitiplication table but understands the concept, give him the calculator. Six months pass and John Doe is still being taught to memorize the multiplication table. No wonder these children never seem to progress to mastery level. Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-16 22:44:51 EST From: PMS Ent I thinfk Mytdks said it very well. My son has difficulting using a penceil or a pen but when he uses a keyboard (computor) he does very well. They (the teachers) won't allow him to utilize this as they insist he must learn to write. I too want him to write, however, he becomes very frustrated and then refuses. If he can write using a typewriter/computor, is he not writing?Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-17 01:13:18 EST From: SusanS29 "No one has worded this as well as you have." Might be because I wrote a book on the subject (grin). Kind of got my thoughts focused... (Grin)Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-17 01:15:12 EST From: SusanS29 "They (the teachers) won't allow him to utilize this as they insist he must learn to write." PMS, that's a violation of his civil rights. It will help him greatly to learn to write. We all need grocery lists, and we have to fill out job applications. However, when he needs to *think* and write at the same time -- which is more important? The thinking, of course. If he can think better using a keyboard it's the *only* appropriate way to do it. If you went to the Office of Civil Rights on this one you'd probably win, and the school would probably have to buy him a laptop.Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-17 13:58:44 EST From: PMS Ent Susan, I am waiting to hear from my advocate in D.C. regarding what to do about the violations of my son's rights prior to his current placement. His current placement is working out better than the last but we are still having difficulting with the "tools" he needs. There are so many problems we are still dealing with that we are just maintaining, if you know what I mean. Our son is l,500 miles away, and though we just managed to get the school district to agree to our visiting him every two months we now have the problems him feeling defeated as we are not there enought to give him the hugs and nuturing he needs while he is struggling with all of his challenges. You know, many people fail to see the whole picture when dealing with a child who has diabilities. Everything is an important component of the learning process. I guess I should side step a little and go to the Civil Rights area as I am not getting very far with the due process of education. I am open to all any any suggestions as our battle is far from being over. Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-17 14:01:33 EST From: PMS Ent I am interested in your book! What is the name of it?Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-18 12:58:23 EST From: SusanS29 The name of it is TAMING THE DRAGONS: REAL HELP FOR REAL SCHOOL PROBLEMS (ISBN # 068243-04-2) -- not yet available nationwide.Subj: Re:What so special about special Date: 95-06-18 12:59:13 EST From: SusanS29 I wish I could help more, PMS, but I don't know much about this sort of problem. You may be forging new territory for the school district. I hope you'll let us know what kind of results you get from the advocate.Subj: What happens after Graduation Date: 95-07-04 10:45:45 EST From: USAisNo1 If we keep the children with disabilities out of the mainstream in school what happens to them after they graduate? Do they go from the locked doors of the special ed room to the locked doors of a group home or some other institution? What hppens to the children who see these disabled children being kept out of the mainstream? Do they begin to believe our children don't belong in their world? Some of the messages that are being silently sent in the schools are the ones causing a lot of the problems in society today. Subj: Re:What happens after Graduation Date: 95-07-04 11:15:11 EST From: SusanS29 "What hppens to the children who see these disabled children being kept out of the mainstream? Do they begin to believe our children don't belong in their world?" Of course they do. Someone actually said that to me once: "I know retarded people can function in the world. I just don't want to have to look at them on the street." In the seventies I lived in a neighborhood where an apartment building was converted to accommodate those with physical challenges. The city put in cement ramps at the curbs, people moved into the apartments and we started seeing people *right there on the public streets* (grin) with physical limitations! It was quite a surprise at first, but now they're quite ordinary-appearing in that neighborhood. The neighborhood has a lot of outdoor cafes which makes them even more visible (not shoved back out of sight by the kitchen where few go). Then they built a halfway house for the mentally ill. People stared at them at first also. It's amazing what us normals can learn to tolerate, given a chance. Please note the satire, folks...Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-07-17 22:03:03 EST From: SPeter9366 When my child was placed in LD, I was delighted, I thought he would be taught stratagiesthat would help him compensate for his weak areas. I also trusted. When a fourth grader comes home and say's " I am going to kill myself, I can't read.".. the first week of foureth grade...the parent better investigate. His teacher assured me his reading had progressed over the two years of LD help. In fact he was at the top level of her students. When I requested a evaluation of his reading, the results( on several tests) showed the marvelous progress amounted to .9 gain in (average) reading level from 1st grade to 4th grade. Because he was reading on K.1-1.2 level at the end of 1st grade and now was reading on a K 11-1.2 levels he had made progress. We have learned the hard way not to trust. There are exceptional Special Education teachers, they do their job, they love our children and most imp[ortant our children learn and make progress and can catch up with their peers. (it's a long story but we now have seen gains of 2-3 years after 6 months of tutoring). In an ideal system our teachers would receive the same respect and financial reward as a Dr. They would serve an internship, they would practice, for a year or two, under master teachers. The teachers would also be accountable for aa childs education and progress. They would be responsible..they would call in an expert, if they could not solve the problem. etc. No longer would parents be told...your son(daughter) is not capable of higher level work. Your child may never learn to read, you might consider counciling(because you have asked for reasons or accountability) The prior comments have been made to me, my son is 11, average IQ, who fell furether and further behind. He is trying to catch up with his peers and someday will. What price has he paid?? I have been in sales and marketing of educational materials for 17 years. I am accountable for my sales and territory. I can not say"I forgot, I did not know, or I did not want to worry you,. your books are backordered and won't be here until March 2. Unfortunatly I have heard these and many other excuses. My third child enters school in September, after two older children with LD, I just now, feel, I have the knowledge to go through the process again. My experiences have been with 4 LD teachers, new ones without the experience or training to assess and remeidate reading problesm. the above teacher and one exceptional teacher. Thanks S.Peter 9366Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-07-18 10:23:37 EST From: Ratatat Without parents, kids are really alone. You have done a good job intervening for your child. Can I suggest a wonderful resource for you and your child's tutor (and maybe even the Special Ed teachers) to help continue the excellent progress and support your child needs? It is a book written by a Special Ed. expert who really knows her stuff and has compassion. This book is very understandable for parents and is full of all sorts of very concrete and specific things you can do with your child to help them with the very specific ways they need to learn. Taming the Dragons: Real Help for Real School Problems, by Susan Setley. You can order it from Bradburn at 1-800-782-2490. I have found it to be full of useful, wise and practical *real* things I can do to help my daughter. It might be some of the best $$ you ever spend on your child's education!!! I mean it. Good luck...your child is indeed fortunate to have a *with-it* parent. :)Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-07-26 00:46:20 EST From: In4Thefun That is great to hear ,about your childs progress! Wish I could say the same for my 10 year old. If you dont mind me asking,who pays for the tutor that has helped so much?Subj: False expectations Date: 95-08-22 12:40:55 EST From: USAisNo1 As a parent of a child with a disability we are not entitled to make mistakes. We are expected to have the right answers all the time. The perfect system would be one that does not place the expectation of perfection on the parents of children with disabilities. The role of parenting is the same as with a child without disabilities. We should be held to the same standard whuch is that we will not always make the right decision all the time but have the ability to determine when a decision is wrong.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-08-22 20:26:59 EST From: Junebug34 IN SEARCH OF A BETTER SYSTEM. I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR RESEARCHING A PROGRAM FOR SLOW LEARNERS. THESE ARE STUDENTS WHO DO NOT QUALIFY FOR SPECIAL EDUCATION. THEY DO NOT HAVE LEARNING DISABILITIES, THEY ARE JUST SLOW LEARNERS WITH LOWER THAN AVERAGE IQS. I WOULD LIKE TO SET UP A QUALIFYING SYSTEM AND GET MORE DATA ON OTHER SCHOOL PROGRAMS. CAN YOU HELP ME? EMAIL ANY HELP.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-08-31 21:31:47 EST From: SusanS29 I hope you find the information you need, but please do not post in all-caps. It's hard to read and how we "shout" on-line. Thanks! SusanS29-HostSubj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-09-14 13:16:56 EST From: MAOJOP My sister is a teacher for the third grade and she has a son who is Downs and is ADHD . She and the whole family have been fighting the school system since before he was eligable to actually go to public school. She is an excellant teacher infact at her school parents request her and she spends most of her time trying to get other children identified and get them help. We have had to Sue the School Board for the last three years to get my nephew what he needs and they still havent gotten the picture. She is very willing to do what ever we can do to get educators educated on our kids. Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-09-15 20:43:36 EST From: Loguek I don't know how to get the educators to "get it". We have been in a bitter due process hearing about our hearing impaired son, placed him in an out of state private program for the last year, starting him on the second year this year, and his progress has been remarkable. Much of it, if not all, can be attributed to the fact he is finally receiving an appropriate education. I don't know why our district cannot see through its own power trip and do what is appropriate for the children. The idea of education plans being individualized is a huge joke in my opinion. What is not so humorous is it takes alot of money, time and peserverance to ever get a ruling in the parents' favor. It is so frustrating...we are finally at a place where our son's needs are truly met for the first time, but we eventually will be back in the district once his education here is finished. And the disheartening fact is we will have to deal with them again when we go back to the district. No wonder my hair is turning white!!!Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-09-16 09:53:28 EST From: SusanS29 "I don't know why our district cannot see through its own power trip and do what is appropriate for the children. " Because if you win -- and you will have some compelling evidence because of his new gains -- they will be obligated to pay for his out-of-state tuition, boarding, etc. If they wanted to avoid that, the burden was on them to design a program that would get close to the same results. Apparently they didn't. Make sure you ask for legal costs as well.Subj: A Perfect System Date: 95-09-19 20:50:00 EST From: Loguek I've tried to respond to your post to me but am having a terrible time getting anything across on e-mail. Will post to you personally when the system can handle it. Bottom line: what advice can you give to parents who are in due process, it will be perhaps several years before the case is decided and goes through several stages of appeal, and how do you come to terms with the injustices the district has done to your child? We know they are injustices and not seeing the child as he is because he is absolutely flourishing where he is now, and was considered an utter failure in the public placement. We are grateful we got him out when we did, but how many other children are not living up to their potential because of the "pig-headeness" of administrators who truly will NEVER see the potential of any of these children?Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-09-19 23:17:46 EST From: SusanS29 " Bottom line: what advice can you give to parents who are in due process, it will be perhaps several years before the case is decided and goes through several stages of appeal..." Have you tried the Office of Civil Rights?Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-09-20 17:59:24 EST From: Loguek No, I think that's about the only thing we haven't tried. What would be the basis of my complaint? What would be allegations as far as his civil rights would be? That he was forced to communicate in a way that was not his chosen mode of communication? Would that then be getting into a methodology issue?Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-09-20 21:49:05 EST From: SusanS29 The Office of Civil Rights takes complaints from any individual with a disability who has been discriminated against, and proving unsuitable services qualifies. It doesn't cost much money (you'll probably need to make some photocopies of your records, etc.), and -- *no lawyers allowed* -- you can't bring one but neither can the school -- which means they can't "out-gun" you. I believe you can take an advocate or friend with you. It's a whole lot faster than the legal system also. What your approach would be I don't know because I don't know your child and his educational history, but anything significant you see as challengeable in an IEP (for instance) might be cause. For instance, if the school district unilaterally changes placement...Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-10-15 21:43:57 EST From: Loguek Susan, it's loguek again, followed your advice and got information from OCR. But the issues we are dealing with are not so much discrimination issues because he is hearing impaired...the issues are to put it bluntly, are illegal tactics such as releasing videotapes to district's experts during due process which were taped without our knowledge or authorization, and were not provided to our counsel during the discovery period. It's illegal, yes, but how is it discriminatory? My understanding from the readings of the basis of OCR complaints is that you have to show discrimination on the basis of impairment. I believe they would have done this to any child, handicapped or not. So is OCR really a vehicle for redress in situations such as this? I am really confused...I can't see that OCR is an appropriate place for issues such as this one. Any advice or insight you have would be appreciated.Subj: Re:A Perfect System Date: 95-10-15 22:19:35 EST From: SusanS29 "It's illegal, yes, but how is it discriminatory?" You wouldn't be involved in any of this except for the fact that your child has a handicap. Now -- rules of evidence that apply court don't apply with OCR -- it isn't a court room, and no lawyers are involved. A better analogy would be to compare it to Small Claims Court. OCR's advantage is that it's relatively fast, and it's FAR cheaper than legal action. However, if your intent is to punish the school district then legal may be your only option. OCR will make a district change its ways, enforce least restrictive environment, appropriate outplacement (where the district has to pay tuitiion) in certain circumstances, but won't levy fines.